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Old 16-07-08, 18:20   #51
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Old 16-07-08, 21:06   #52
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ill send you a pm tomorrow champ .
it is my convertible the only problem is becaus eof the fold in roof the boot isnt as tall where the parcel shelf is probably a couple cms lower thats why i asked. ill get more into detail in it via pm tomorrow champ
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Old 17-07-08, 01:09   #53
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Originally Posted by xbt106
So basically any factory management will not work to the full benefit of the liquid injection? How much are these profire ecu's worth...and if you already have a car with factory management are they easy to fit?
What???
No any sequential engine management system will run it.
VS onwards is sequential injection. All those cars you see that are done are being driven by the factory ECU and they run perfect and always gain performance. Group fire will run, but it'll run like crap, just like the vapour injection systems do when fitted to group fire injection vehicles, as some of you have found out, they will not idle right and will lose performance because the liquid LPG is not being injected at a opening engine valve so the expanding LPG vapour will have nowhere to go but expand back up into the inlet runner and loosing its cooling properties etc.
Profire prices vary. If you look on their website I think they have some prices there. But the Profire ECU is still in development so they will only sell them to selected people that they choose to.
The profire ECU will be fitted easier if you run all your standard ignition system and engine sensors, BUT to be a true SEQUENTIAL ECU it needs a crankshaft position sensor ON THE CRANK and a cam reference signal from the camshaft, that way it can precisely time injection. But having said that you can still utilise the VL's dissy and crank angle sensor to trigger sequential injection.
Then there is also the option of upgrading you ignition system with MSD or redundant spark coil pack or coil on plug coil packs like Gen 3 (My personal preference for performance as you can tune each cylinder individually catering for inconsistencies that occur between cylinders on any engine. So if you can give each individual cylinder maximum tune at all times you will gain more power) but the wiring and installation becomes much more involved, as does tuning and configuring the ECU accordingly.
So there is a massive amount of things to consider, and all of this costs money but you need to remember the end product will be one of the most ultimate fuel systems available and if you were to do something similar in petrol, as in purchase ALL the parts to fit a fuel system from scratch to a car, you are looking at BIG BUCKS. Go to Holden and ask them to price you a full fuel system from, say, a VX commo, from fuel filler to all under bonnet components (including emission stuff for that year model of engine too as it need to be legal remember) and the ECU and all the wiring related to make this system work. Then sit back and consider how hard it would be to tune this OEM ECU and how hard it is to upgrade for future mods.
Petrol seems pretty crap in comparison doesn't it????
Now consider the JTG liquid injection and aftermarket ECU.
You can tune EVERY facet of the fuel and ignition system and run different maps easily. Future mods and improvements in HP can be configured with a keystroke, literally. And then if you need more fuel from your injectors you just pull the injectors out and run a bigger calibrator nozzle and re tune.
How easy is that!!!
The Injectors that this system runs are a VERY good injector and can run some pretty amazing flow through them, hence why they have a restrictor/ calibration nozzle fitted, and they can handle 20 bar!!!! And still operate perfectly!!! The Walbro High flow pump in the LPG tank is also a beast of a unit and will keep up to big applications easily, and can be run at more than the standard 3 bar above tank pressure.
That's what makes this system so good and why the rest of the world have gone nuts over it. It is well and truly sorted, and is the future of LPG by a long shot.

Last edited by blownba; 17-07-08 at 01:12.
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Old 17-07-08, 19:18   #54
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Quote:
a VX commo, from fuel filler to all under bonnet components (including emission stuff for that year model of engine too as it need to be legal remember) and the ECU and all the wiring related to make this system work. Then sit back and consider how hard it would be to tune this OEM ECU and how hard it is to upgrade for future mods.
Petrol seems pretty crap in comparison doesn't it????
Now consider the JTG liquid injection and aftermarket ECU.
You can tune EVERY facet of the fuel and ignition system and run different maps easily. Future mods and improvements in HP can be configured with a keystroke, literally.

what do u mean hard to tune??? efi live, hp tuners, gen 3 comp would be a better computer than any aftermarket comp going around, aftermarket ones u have to make up the cold start map etc, gen3 has had millons of hours in development gone into it, on another note how much power has any one got out of liquid injectoin?? real car figrues, as im doing a bbc using gas research right now, maybe consider going this way later on
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Old 20-07-08, 17:03   #55
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For most gas fitters it is hard to tune, as we don't use EFI live etc...
I don't know what the max power anyone has achieved from this system. I'm sure if you do a search you'll see all the race cars in Europe running it. Maybee they will have power figures posted too.
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Old 01-08-08, 12:20   #56
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is anyone in Adelaide doing injected LPG systems for performance cars?
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Old 29-10-08, 21:40   #57
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updates?
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Old 19-02-09, 18:31   #58
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Kits for Rb25?
Also can a regular tuner tune the car once its all installed.
I have wolfv4 and all the goodies, you mentioned its do-able on the wolf but abit tricky? My tuner is a wolf tuner so i was wondering if it would be easier for him to tune it rather than the gas installer?

Sorry for my lack of knowledge!
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Old 20-02-09, 10:29   #59
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yeah ur regular tuner can tune the gas with an after market computer once it has been installed by an accredited installer. as long as u r running a sequential firing system(u probly r due 2 r32 being sequential spark and fuel). he will tune exactly the same way he tunes fuel, watch a/f ratio and such.

probly easy 4 him as he knows the system and probly has laptop interface so he dosn't have 2 piss fart around with the hand controller.
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Old 20-02-09, 10:44   #60
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how are these kits going as far as left of centre setups?
ie. for the RB engines, or 2jz etc etc

are the prices or part availability getting any better?
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Old 20-02-09, 20:49   #61
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Mate its about bloody time these kits came out.
I've been looking into liquid injection for a few years now with no sucess. I just heard the other day about a liquid injection thing in some mag and my ears pricked up.
By far the best way to be going.
When i first started looking up these things, i heard of a few trial cars getting about, one being a off tap supercharged V8, making almost 1000hp. That got me really excited!!!

Just a few Q's for the tech heads, why is there a pump?? Can't you just use tank pressure?? Whats the diff of 20bar +3??? seems a bit strange
Are the injectors just efi fuel injectors with a high pressure hose on the back??
Do the injectors plumb into the efi spots for similar to vapour injection where you drill and tap a hole into the manifold?? just couldn't see from pics.
Can we just buy parts and fit it our selves?? (i do all my own work)
If we had a prog management does the price come down or is it just $4500 and go from there??
I just think $4500 is a bit rich for a tank(with pump) some lines and a few injectors. or is each injector like $600 ea??
Mate not having a go, just trying to justify where all the money is.

Any info would be great.
Thanks
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Old 21-02-09, 21:59   #62
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hey misk lpg kits r starting to flow through 4 most of the late model stuff, eg falcon and commo. as for rb and 2jz the kits will universal and modified 2 suit. kits are getting more avaliable although the main issue i have is unable 2 get tanks. pricing hasnt changed if any gone up a little.

Dj labby the liquid system has a pump to maintain a constant working pressure. the tank has a return to supply a cool flow. this is done so u don't get any frezzing of the injectors.
most of the injectors fit up to a installed nipple, similar to gas vapour set ups. u r able to get injectors 2 fit into the oem spots but havnt seen the as yet.
most lpg wholesales won't sell u complete kits due to them having 2 be fit by accreditated installers.
even if u have a programable ecu ur not gonna c the price come down. the complete kit is expensive. to fit it u require special tooling to make up the hoses, not 2 mention there is a ton of work involved installing a lpg system, wiring, modifying, fabricating, tunning ect.
essentially a lpg injection system is like a top dollar petrol system. tank with a fuel pump(can use a walbro if u want!!), supply and return lines, injectors and rail, pressure regulator and the management 2 run it!!
benefits r lpg liquid has more bang than fuel, injected super cold lowering intake charge temps and is cheaper.....

hope that helps
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Old 22-02-09, 00:09   #63
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hm its a shame its not easier to purchase kits or at least parts seperatly from the supplier. i agree there is alot of work to fit a gas system, but i also agree that its not very different to fitting a petrol fuel system, which has been done time and time again by people at home

id love to get a tank, ecu & sensors, and few other bits and pieces and basically just have an installed fit the gas lines and injectors and do a tune!
but i guess that wont be happening lol
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Old 28-03-09, 10:46   #64
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Hey guys

I don't want to get anyone too excitied but I have a GQ patrol with an rb30
turbo running the JTG system and putting out nearly 300rkw in a very early stage of tune

I used to work for gaspower australia and I installed the first 4 systems in Perth as Gas Power was the first to able to install the systems in WA

My patrol is running the system off the VLT ecu with nistune and it has been very suscessful. ATM I am still running the JTG ICM computer for dual fuel but it has been nothing but problems so I am rewiring this weekend removing my petrol injectors and moving my gas injectors into the primary position right infront of the intake valve for best power and economy

I have installed approx 14 to 15 systems for gas power before I left to concentrate on the performance side on LPG.

Ill just go take some photos of my engine bay and get them up for you

Joel
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Ok here is some photos of my Patrol engine bay.

Note this is the first stage in development as I wanted to do some testing before I got carried away. But it has gone well and im starting stage 2 this weekend. I have drawn up a design for a new plenum and I will be starting to rewire the system today for dedicated LPG



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Last edited by wrath; 28-03-09 at 11:03. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
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Old 28-03-09, 11:04   #65
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Wrath: Was it much of a problem to fit on the RB30? What other work have you also had done to make that power?
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Old 28-03-09, 11:19   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dj labby
Mate its about bloody time these kits came out.
I've been looking into liquid injection for a few years now with no sucess. I just heard the other day about a liquid injection thing in some mag and my ears pricked up.
By far the best way to be going.
When i first started looking up these things, i heard of a few trial cars getting about, one being a off tap supercharged V8, making almost 1000hp. That got me really excited!!!

Just a few Q's for the tech heads, why is there a pump?? Can't you just use tank pressure?? Whats the diff of 20bar +3??? seems a bit strange
Are the injectors just efi fuel injectors with a high pressure hose on the back??
Do the injectors plumb into the efi spots for similar to vapour injection where you drill and tap a hole into the manifold?? just couldn't see from pics.
Can we just buy parts and fit it our selves?? (i do all my own work)
If we had a prog management does the price come down or is it just $4500 and go from there??
I just think $4500 is a bit rich for a tank(with pump) some lines and a few injectors. or is each injector like $600 ea??
Mate not having a go, just trying to justify where all the money is.

Any info would be great.
Thanks


The pump is used to keep the rail pressure at 3+bar above tank pressure to keep the LPG in liquid form, the higher the outside temp the greater the pressure has to be to stop the LPG changing state.. this has been the biggest problem for the developers not freezing as the gas only freezes as it enters the manifold where the pressure is low and the temp is higher. a solinoid is used on the regulator to alow the lpg to circulate the system quickly and purge and vapour that may be in the rail.

As for the price DJ its simple economics.... supply and demand everyone wants this system and LPG wherehouse are UNDER THE PUMP atm and your not just paying for the equipment but years of research and devolpment.
As for getting the parts yourself.... never going to happen, its a regulated industry and you have to be licensed to even be able to touch most of the LPG equipment.

sorry to be a wet blanket but just setting the record straight

Quote:
Originally Posted by HDT-VLCLE
Wrath: Was it much of a problem to fit on the RB30? What other work have you also had done to make that power?

Engine is stock N/A turbo is GT3076 with a 6boost manifold and tial wastegate 3" mandrel system that I fabbed up and thats about it. altho im very careful with it as I want to get the setup right before I pull the engine for a rebuild, I just want to shot peen the rods fit ARP rod bolts and a solid head gasket. If all goes well i might increase static compression ratio to 10:1 LPG has a octane rating of 104 to 110 so ratios of up to 11 and 12 can be used but I wouldn't go that high with boost over 10psi

I am making a new plenum to move the TB back and allow space for a fusion intercooler ontop of the engine to keep intake air temp to a more consistant level and monday the turbo manifold and dump pipe will be getting ceramic coated to reduce engine bay temps
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Last edited by wrath; 28-03-09 at 11:31. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
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Old 28-03-09, 21:38   #67
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what about using the nistune as batch fire? i thought you could only use an ecu that has sequential injection with liquid lpg injection ?!
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Old 29-03-09, 06:40   #68
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i'm going to assume that he's not running sequential injection with the nistune, only group fire...
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Old 29-03-09, 10:05   #69
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The comment was you can use batch but it runs rough apparently as Blownba said.

As I said earlier this is stage 1 of my development with this car, the plan was to upgrade the ECU at a later stage but test how the system ran on the standard ECU with batch fire.... and the result.....it runs very well, infact I may not upgrade the ECU. However being a 4WD im not searching for ultimate HP, it has more than I can use on loose terrain so this setup is fine. But of course sequential will give you better power, economy and touque.
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Old 30-01-11, 14:15   #70
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hello

First post on your forum.I an looking to buy a liquid injection tank,or multi-valve assy and fuel pump.Also i would like to talk to Blowba if possible. Thankyou
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Old 31-01-11, 18:48   #71
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Tomorrow is the release of LPGAS1 new plug and play liquid injection kits.

For new cars VE's and FG's, few others aswell, went to a training thing in Melbourne on these kits, look very good, Australian owned and manufactured.

Will be fitting them in the next couple of weeks.
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Old 01-02-11, 17:43   #72
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Do u have anymore info on the kits or even install pictures???

I hear the kit for VE/BA/BF/FG are $4500.00 RRP, is this true???

Also how flexible is the LPG kit for say a owner in a VE does a cam and exhaust upgrade and need's a retune??? i was told they are fully flexible and it has it's own ecu and can plug in a laptop and calibrate the LPG injectors..........
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Old 03-02-11, 03:20   #73
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Here is a nice article detailing the performance potential of liquid propane injection: http://www.mustang50magazine.com/tec...wer/index.html

Basically they run 12.5:1 compression and run in the mid 10's on the 1/4 mile, N/A.



Is anyone familiar with these injectors?
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Old 03-02-11, 16:59   #74
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Here is a nice article detailing the performance potential of liquid propane injection: http://www.mustang50magazine.com/tec...wer/index.html

Basically they run 12.5:1 compression and run in the mid 10's on the 1/4 mile, N/A.



Is anyone familiar with these injectors?
They are from a company in the US called Biphase
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Old 03-02-11, 18:31   #75
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abrowne70

Do u have anymore info on the kits or even install pictures???

I hear the kit for VE/BA/BF/FG are $4500.00 RRP, is this true???

Also how flexible is the LPG kit for say a owner in a VE does a cam and exhaust upgrade and need's a retune??? i was told they are fully flexible and it has it's own ecu and can plug in a laptop and calibrate the LPG injectors..........
Im pretty sure kits are about $3500 plus installation. (Dont quote me on that though)

Fully Tunable, havent really looked into it yet, but im also led to believe they are fully tuneable. Fuel maps are editable, injectors are able to be calibrated. So im pretty sure there tuneable. I have a manual for installation of a kit at work, when i get back there next week i shall have a look and suss it out for you.

Last edited by abrowne70; 03-02-11 at 18:33.
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