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Old 13-09-10, 11:02   #76
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There's always going to be pro's and con's on both types of engine and there is always going to be a never-ending debate on which one is better. At the end of the day it comes down to your own personal preference and type of application your looking to use the bike for and whatever your comfortable riding.

On another note let's get some pictures up
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one lump sum of $900 did fk all for me.
i think i bought some crack and paid some bills.
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Old 13-09-10, 11:27   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HTURBO View Post
Next thing your going to say that the CR500 rev's harder or higher lol. Also you'll be saying a two stroke is better for the bush. It's all about putting the power to use. Who won the blue light rally where I live. A four stroke. With over a 1000 riders of two & four strokes. A four stroke won. Well I be dammed.
Mate I've continually said four strokes have a much smoother more usable powerband which makes them easier to ride and therefore faster in a race track situation. There is no debate the four stroke is faster around a track unless you get the right guy/right track for a 500.

You know KTM have released a 350 four stroke, and that it beat the 450's in the first race they put it in? Power doesn't equal fast lap times. It's more to do with the rider, there's no reason the same guy who won your rally couldn't have won the same race on a KTM300 or CR500AF. In fact most of the euro trail/offroad races are won by KTM300 2 strokes and they're considered some of the best trail bikes around. Have you ever seen Red Bull Romaniacs?

Im not trying to wipe 0.5 seconds off my laptime and prefer the raw power delivery and scream of a 2 stroke plus they're vastly cheaper to run. You're ignorant as **** if you think 2 strokes can't compete and are a thing of the past.
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Old 13-09-10, 11:49   #78
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Just face it, 2 strokes are being slowly out phased. They will be the thing of the past. Love the sound of a rev limiter on my CRF450R. BTW I don't think AMA will bring back 2 strokes to soon anyway. I sick of argument. This could go on for days.
Let's just leave it at,
I like my 4 stroke &
you like your 2 smoke.
Wasn't this thread about 4 stroke motocross bikes??
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Old 13-09-10, 13:29   #79
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2 strokes are going to be around for a while yet mate, the new KTM 300's are an awesome bike and are selling well all over the world. If you actually took the time to throw a leg over a Service Honda 500AF you'd be singing a different tune I think.

Just the same as there will always be turbo 6's and people who love them even though they don't race V8 supercars anymore. Is a V8 superior to a Turbo 6 because it makes more low down power and can deliver it smoother? Maybe to some people, but to others the feeling of a turbo hitting boost is what they enjoy. All im saying is don't be close minded and think four strokes are the only thing worth riding... a screaming 2 stroke 500AF is something to be respected regardless of preference! The thread might be about 4 strokes but that doesn't mean you can bash 2 strokes freely and not expect anyone to defend them

.

Last edited by no.traction; 13-09-10 at 13:48.
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Old 13-09-10, 13:51   #80
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1TJGK...eature=related
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i think i bought some crack and paid some bills.
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Old 13-09-10, 16:32   #81
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I totally agree with what no.traction has said, and not just because i like two strokes either..

Man those 500's look wicked don't they!
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Old 13-09-10, 16:56   #82
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I raced a KTM 200SX years ago nothing could touch them in the forest next best was the KDX 200 lol still a good bike but the KTM killed them
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Old 13-09-10, 19:29   #83
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This thread is full of 2 smoke loosers. Try racing a two smoke in the bush & see what you come up with.
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Old 13-09-10, 19:52   #84
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Hey I won 2 NZ harescramble titles on that 200SX then went to the KTM 250SXF with a 350 kit on it now that was a good bike
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Old 13-09-10, 21:52   #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SIKVLT View Post
Hey I won 2 NZ harescramble titles on that 200SX then went to the KTM 250SXF with a 350 kit on it now that was a good bike

Now this is the supercharged MX bike. Unlike those mosquito buzzing stinky 2-strokes. It's like comparing your average turbo to a supercharged muscle car on nos.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8gGyG9gT8YQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g1IDV2rkhaU
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Old 13-09-10, 22:26   #86
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Originally Posted by HTURBO View Post

Now this is the supercharged MX bike. Unlike those mosquito buzzing stinky 2-strokes. It's like comparing your average turbo to a supercharged muscle car on nos.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8gGyG9gT8YQ
hahaha like an average turbo vs supercharged muscle on nos?? you really have no idea what you're talking about mate. the first bike is a stock 2010 CRF450R (see review below) and the second bike is a motard conversion with a ****load of money spent on it which is hardly relevant.

2010 CRF450R Review

Q: HOW FAST IS THE 2010 CRF450?

A: It’s not very fast. In fact, it is the slowest 450 motocross bike that we have tested in 2010.

Q: HOW WOULD WE DESCRIBE THE 2010 CRF450 POWERBAND?

A: “Mellow” comes to mind.

Q: HOW DOES THE 2010 CRF450 RUN ON THE DYNO?

A: It makes 50.90 horsepower (with peak horsepower at 8400 rpm). How does that compare to other 450s? The 2010 CRF450 makes 3.0 horsepower less than the KTM 450SXF, 2.8 horsepower less than the KX450F, and 1.7 horsepower less than the YZ450F.

My old school CR250 made 50rwhp last time it was on the dyno with 200cc less displacement, weighs less, cost a fraction of the price and requires a lot less maintenance.

Saying that I would take the CRF over my bike anyday, and I have no doubt it would be a much quicker bike in all aspects especially with some mods. But a supercharged machine that decimates all it is not - a standard 500AF would destroy it mate, that CRF450 is well behind on hp and weighs more with both of em straight out of the box not to mention the 500AF ramps up and pulls like a freight train compared to the mellow power curve of the CRF450.

So you're spot on about it being like comparing a standard turbo vs a supercharged muscle car - only its the 500AF that is the hard to tame muscle car and the CRF450 is more like the average turbo noob friendly bike for the masses...

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Originally Posted by SIKVLT View Post
Hey I won 2 NZ harescramble titles on that 200SX then went to the KTM 250SXF with a 350 kit on it now that was a good bike
Thats a bloody good effort mate, congrats!! I'd imagine a NZ harescramble would be one hell of an epic race haha think id be stoked just to make it to the finish line in one piece

Last edited by no.traction; 13-09-10 at 22:47.
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Old 13-09-10, 22:48   #87
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The Honda CRF450R weighs less than a CR500. And get some real information next time.

The Undisputed Open-Class Champ. Again.
Eight years running. That’s how many times the CRF450R has been crowned Cycle World’s Best Motocross Bike in its annual “Ten Best Bikes” edition. Eight straight times —or, to put it in real-world perspective, every year since this MX missile was first introduced. Throw in Transworld MX “2009 Bike of the Year” and Dirt Rider “2009 Motocross Bike of the Year” honors, and you might just start to see a trend here. It’s called domination, and after fine-tuning several performance features—like reprogramming the ECU in our revolutionary batteryless fuel injection (for better starting and off/on throttle control); redesigning the rear shock (for improved suspension action); and revising engine decompression (for quicker hot starts), just to name a few—the CRF450R’s place atop the MX mountain looks as secure as ever. After all, the experts have spoken. Both on and off the track.
The Undisputed Open-Class Champ. Again.

Eight years running. That’s how many times the CRF450R has been crowned Cycle World’s Best Motocross Bike in its annual “Ten Best Bikes” edition. Eight straight times —or, to put it in real-world perspective, every year since this MX missile was first introduced. Throw in Transworld MX “2009 Bike of the Year” and Dirt Rider “2009 Motocross Bike of the Year” honors, and you might just start to see a trend here. It’s called domination, and after fine-tuning several performance features—like reprogramming the ECU in our revolutionary batteryless fuel injection (for better starting and off/on throttle control); redesigning the rear shock (for improved suspension action); and revising engine decompression (for quicker hot starts), just to name a few—the CRF450R’s place atop the MX mountain looks as secure as ever. After all, the experts have spoken. Both on and off the track.

How you can make the world’s best MX bike better

The HRC Fuel-Injection Setting Tool lets you fine-tune your CRF450R's fuel injection for specific track conditions. Just click on the Learn More link, and you'll get all the information you need.
In addition, by clicking here, you can Download Additional Settings files for the Fuel Injection Setting Tool.

A Winning Program.

Programmed Fuel Injection optimizes fuel/air delivery to seamless perfection, and with new-for-2010 ECU programming, the CRF450R’s performance is more responsive and more potent than ever.
Learn More

More Control. Less Effort.

Developed by our factory racing team, the Honda Progressive Steering Damper is lightweight, compact and enhances cornering ability while reducing rider fatigue.
See How It Works

Proof Is on the Podium.

How good is the CRF450R? Just check out our racing results!
Learn More

Winning answer here.
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x5n...n-windham_auto
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Old 13-09-10, 23:01   #88
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You're still looking at the OLD 500's mate. The 2010 500AF uses the same frame/suspension as the 450 with the difference being the engine which weighs less and makes more power.

Specs:
2010 CRF450R - 2010 500AF

2010 500AF dry weight = 213lb
2010 CRF450 dry weight = 234lb

2010 500AF = 60hp
2010 CRF450 = 50hp

At the end of the day mate it weighs more and makes less hp with a mellow and smooth power curve, that review is also only lining it up against other 450's and specifically judging it on an MX situation. If you where to talk to those guys and ask them if they had to classify between a service honda 2010 500AF and the 2010 CRF450R with one of them being an untamed muscle car and the other being a noob friendly average turbo it's pretty obvious what the answer would be.

If you ask them which one would be faster around a track, they would point to the CRF450R as being easier to get good times out of, nobody is disputing that... which is more fun depends on what youre using it for and if you like raw power or good traction and lap times. Nobody is knocking the new breed of 450's they're fantastic and amazing for track work and ease of use but the 500AF rules the roost when it comes to sheer jaw dropping arm yanking savagery whether you like it or not!!

Last edited by no.traction; 15-09-10 at 15:40.
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Old 13-09-10, 23:18   #89
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That will never see the day in AMA. Carburetter & reeds, so old.

---------- Post added 13-09-10 at 23:26 ----------

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Originally Posted by no.traction View Post
500AF rules the roost when it comes to sheer jaw dropping arm yanking savagery whether you like it or not!!
Here's a bloke talking about 500's when he has a little 250.lol
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Old 13-09-10, 23:55   #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HTURBO View Post
Here's a bloke talking about 500's when he has a little 250.lol
Haha yeah righto... no need to get personal mate im not taking the bait and getting into a who's e-penis is larger comp. I just wanted to set a few things straight after seeing you spewing uninformed bull**** about 2 strokes based on limited knowledge of your mates old school tech bike.

Respect goes a long way in life man it wouldn't hurt to show some and open your eyes to the possibility that other people may have a valid point even if it goes against what you wanna hear.

I've put a couple of very interesting links below on the future of 2 strokes, great read for anyone interested in the future of dirtbikes - with air assisted direct injection on its way in the near future and already being used in other applications the 2 stroke is set to reclaim its throne leaving four strokes behind in almost every aspect. Snowmobile and Outboard companies are already shifting there focus towards direct injection 2 strokes as they are lighter, cleaner, have better fuel economy and make much more power with the same displacement not to mention require less maintenance.

Two Strokes Strike Back

Future of 2 Strokes

450cc 2 strokes using direct injection? Amazing. As soon as this new technology is refined and released over the next 5-10 years four strokes will start to be phased out and two strokes with new direct injection technology will be the future of dirtbikes and quite possibly road bikes as well. KTM already has a direct injection 2 stroke almost ready to go, the future is not all that far away.

‘We’ve given up on four-strokes’
Leading outboard motor firm Evinrude sells at the premium performance end of the marine market. The firm abandoned four-stroke development after discovering direct injection offered their 25-300bhp two-strokes more power, better economy and less weight. They’re also emissions compliant to projected Euro 2010 standards. Spokesman Mike Loach says: “There’s a place for four strokes – doing the dull jobs. They’re bloody heavy and don’t give the power or the torque of the two-strokes. We believe two-strokes are simply better and people who try them quickly agree”."

Last edited by no.traction; 14-09-10 at 12:41.
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Old 14-09-10, 12:20   #91
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i also ride a 4stroke, as above but HTURBO your really making a fool of yourself lol.
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Old 14-09-10, 21:12   #92
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Yeah what ever. 2 strokes go harder in the bush than 4-strokes lol. Back to the topic, wasn't this thread about 4-stroke motocross bikes.
Is'nt it funny how every 2-stroke bloke is from Melbourne. Wait to you ride up here. Then you'll know what we're talking about.


Quote:
Originally Posted by no.traction View Post
Haha yeah righto... no need to get personal mate im not taking the bait and getting into a who's e-penis is larger comp. 450cc 2 strokes using direct injection? Amazing. As soon as this new technology is refined and released over the next 5-10 years four strokes will start to be phased out and two strokes with new direct injection technology will be the future of dirtbikes and quite possibly road bikes as well. KTM already has a direct injection 2 stroke almost ready to go, the future is not all that far away.

Bahahahaha

CRF450R Fuel injected FTMFW.

Last edited by HTURBO; 15-09-10 at 01:07.
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Old 14-09-10, 22:19   #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HTURBO View Post

Here's a bloke talking about 500's when he has a little 250.lol
here's a bloke talking about 450 fuel injected bikes when he has an 05 450r!

i take it you havnt seen a good rider on a 2stroke before if you think you can beat any 2 stroke in the bush!

at the end of the day.. who gives a rats ass? if you like a 2 stroke then you'll buy a 2 stroke, visa versa!
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Old 14-09-10, 22:25   #94
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Yeah what ever. no.traction is making a fool of himself.
You're the only one making a fool of yourself. You're like the Honda Civic owner of Bikes, OMG VTEC IS THE BEST YO.
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Old 14-09-10, 22:35   #95
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i cant believe this has gone on this long lol
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Shelve it.
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as in leave it on a shelf? not very constructive..
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Old 14-09-10, 23:56   #96
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Quote:
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You're the only one making a fool of yourself. You're like the Honda Civic owner of Bikes, OMG VTEC IS THE BEST YO.
Good on ya and your like the go go mobile of bikes lol. Let's see how you would go in my territory.
Wow ning nings go better. LMFAO http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ocMhp4G3I8
Don't any of you know. It's all about putting power to the ground. It's either break traction in band or traction with no throttle. Where a CRF450R has such a wide/broad power band it's so usable.

And how many CR500AF raced in motocross. none

Last edited by HTURBO; 15-09-10 at 01:08.
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Old 15-09-10, 11:22   #97
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Originally Posted by HTURBO View Post
Don't any of you know. It's all about putting power to the ground. It's either break traction in band or traction with no throttle. Where a CRF450R has such a wide/broad power band it's so usable.
And the truth comes out... it's pretty obvious this hatred for 2 strokes stems from your inability to ride one properly. But jump on your noob friendly 450 and suddenly you think you're Ricky Carmichael. Nobody is saying 4 strokes are no good, they are great. What im saying is 2 strokes are great as well. You seem determined to prove they are useless, but the problem is you're wrong!

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Originally Posted by HTURBO View Post
And how many CR500AF raced in motocross. none
The 2004 500AF was tested by Transworld Mx and found to be up to 4 seconds per lap faster than a fully modified 2004 CRF450R on the motocross track, they called this revelation "The Truth"!

Average lap times

04 CR500AF
-----------
Don Maeda- 158:69
Mitchell Bailey-153:44
Ryan Cooley-149:03

04 CRF450R
-----------
Don Maeda-159:06
Mitchell Bailey-155:12
Ryan Cooley-153:78

On another interesting note all the recent world record jumps such as Maddo's record where all done on 500AF's, why would they choose such a bike for the job? Because of the power/weight.

500AF's are not allowed in the 450 class, there was a displacement rule introduced to allow 4 strokes to compete with 2 strokes. They decided 2 strokes would need to be nearly half the capacity to allow fair competition because of the much higher output vs displacement. This was fair at the time but because of the huge amount of R&D invested into 4 strokes over the past 10 years teamed with a lack of R&D for 2 strokes the 4 strokes took over in MX. The simple fact is MX manufacturers make a small fortune out of 4 stroke maintenance, its good business for them to be pushing nothing else.

However Snowmobile and Outboard manufacturers have continued developing 2 strokes and with a massive breakthrough in Direct Injection in recent times they have solved almost all of the 2 stroke vices. KTM have seen the light and are ahead of the pack with jumping on this technology, they already have direct injection 2 stroke bikes complete and in a testing phase. Direct Injection will allow for cleaner, more fuel efficient, more powerful 2 strokes with tunable power bands (ie, tractable) with the same low maintenance costs. The other manufacturers will be forced to follow soon after. You will be eating your words in years to come, HTURBO

Last edited by no.traction; 15-09-10 at 15:44.
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Old 15-09-10, 12:41   #98
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ahhh, grow up. CBF arguing with little kids. I'm so over it. Ah but wait no.traction will have the last say LMFAO. When they race 500cc 2 strokes in the AMA you will have my apology

---------- Post added 15-09-10 at 12:42 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by gmh-086 View Post
There's always going to be pro's and con's on both types of engine and there is always going to be a never-ending debate on which one is better. At the end of the day it comes down to your own personal preference and type of application your looking to use the bike for and whatever your comfortable riding.

On another note let's get some pictures up

x2 big time.
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Old 15-09-10, 16:26   #99
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Originally Posted by HTURBO View Post
ahhh, grow up. CBF arguing with little kids. I'm so over it. Ah but wait no.traction will have the last say LMFAO. When they race 500cc 2 strokes in the AMA you will have my apology
You want me to grow up? You're the only one here acting like a little kid mate, refusing to accept 2 strokes as good bikes and just repeating the same narrow minded opinion that "ning nings are crap" regardless of any information presented and with nothing to backup your claims.

2T direct injection is basically re-invention of the wheel as far as 2T technology goes, its the biggest leap forward in 2 stroke history and its only just around the corner from being unveiled. Refusing to believe it exists and claiming that 2 strokes are a thing of the past isn't going to make it go away!!

I've been reading these boards for nearly 10 years now and if the forums still going strong in another 5-10 years time I will be here waiting for that apology. I wont post again in this thread till that happens so say what you like im happy with the fact that anyone who stumbles onto this thread not knowing a lot about 2 or 4 strokes might learn a thing or two rather than just "ning nings are crap"

Last edited by no.traction; 15-09-10 at 16:29.
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Old 15-09-10, 20:50   #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 88_vl_bt1 View Post
Yeah mate, ya spot on there it all comes down to the style of your riding, reason i'm going for a 4 stroke over a 2 stroke(again) is the instant torque and making life a bit eaiser on those slippery steep hills in the bush... had too many experances sliding backwards down wet red dirt hills cause my cr 250 kept stalling. thanks for putting up the maintance shedule for me.
Here ya go, a bloke that knows what he is talking about.
2 strokes in bush = fail
4 strokes in bush = wicked fun
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