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Old 18-10-08, 11:22   #1
LUXJET
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286 crane : timing : fu c k this tapping off

hey guys just wondering wat all you carby 308 lads with a crane 286 cam have your timing set to, i tryed 6deg btc and its taps under load, 8does the same, then i retarded the fuc k out of it (about 8-10deg retarded) and it wouldnt tap unless i was going up a big hill, it sorta seems like like one of my rocker arms have come loose,

i torqued up the bolts right and had the arms around the right way,

cheers matt
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Old 18-10-08, 12:20   #2
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mate what is the cam timeing set at? also it should be running atleast 12dbtc being a pretty big street cam, it could be just pinging due to it not having enough fuel or not enough spark
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Old 18-10-08, 15:35   #3
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Is the cam degreed in properly? Has the balancer spun and giving an incorrect timing mark? Find true TDC and note the balancer position, then set it at 8 degrees advance, if it is still pinging then you have other problems.
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Old 19-10-08, 21:30   #4
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Did you set the cam up at 0 when you put it in?
Are you running 98 octane in your tank?
You should be able to run it at 8 degrees without it pinging.
Maybe the motor doesn't have enough compression to run the cam properly.
From the crane website
HYDRAULIC - Fair idle, strong mid
range-top end street & strip performance.
Needs 9.5-10:1 comp 3.08-3.5 gears,
hi-stall converter etc. for best results.
BASIC RPM 2200-6000
.

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Old 19-10-08, 21:50   #5
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man this cam needs 4deg advancemnt, and the timeing on 12dbtc if u set the cam at 0 then the cam will be retaded and not enough fuel will get in and it wont run to its best of its ability, cams need to be dialed in for a reason,,

also like silver vh said man make sure the ballencer hasnt spun which would give u the wrong timing via the timing light
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Old 20-10-08, 12:02   #6
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my money is on incorrect cam dial in... its critical.
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Old 20-10-08, 13:54   #7
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i didnt put the cam in my engine builder did, im only running normal unleaded, my comp. should be fine so said my engine builder, i got flat top acl pistons and a +20 bore,

i got the engine back as a block with pistons and cam already in, i only had to bolt on the heads, sump, inlet and dizzy..

i think the problem is air / fuel along with timing, im taking it to my engine builder as his pretty good at his job,

ill let ya's know how i go..

BTW my fuel economy is pretty sweet atm.... 260kms and the gauge is in between 1/2 and 3/4

cheers
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Old 20-10-08, 18:37   #8
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hmmm.. a standard cam is ok to run at 0deg on dail in.. but running a 286 if i were building it.. id set to about 10deg btdc, an tune from the dizzy when its running.
and how did you run the engine itself from first start up? because the first 20mins is critical..
also.. if there was no engine assembly lube on the cam lobes, a lifter may have chopped a lobe off "happend in a 253 of mine and it didnt make any noise until it was under 3/4 to full load"
im not doubting your builder at all.. just sharing afew throughts.
burgz

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Old 21-10-08, 16:39   #9
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What colour are your plugs?
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Old 21-10-08, 19:15   #10
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plugs were pretty normal very very light yellowish dust, when i ran the cam in i started it let it idle for around 5-10seconds to let the oil pump around the engine as it was a rebuild, the did the run in for around 15mins but had to stop cos it started over heating cos a coolant hose had split, i really hope i havent shorn off a lobe that would be a c u nt.. do you think that 10sec idle would do such a thing burgz?

i played with the timing a little yesterday, i found tdc and it seemed the notch on the balancer was around 12-14 deg. anti clockwise (avanced, right?). but if the cam is at 0deg with the crank which it was. shouldnt the notch the straight north? i marked the balancer where i found tdc and the diz point was dead on numb1 lead so that means the timing was at 0deg nether advanced or retarded? i advanced it a little but i was **** thru the whole range, then i retarded it a bit and it was ok, i can cruise up 100kph slowly at like 1/4 throttle with out a tap but if i had to over take a slow car it will tap but not really badly, but theres no way id be flattening it, it would sound like it wash falling apart,

im reasonably mechanically minded like i aint dumb, but this is f u ckin annoying i'v spent over 3k on this engine.

im just gonna take it to my engine builder and say fix it and send me the bill..

cheerrs matt

also cam lube was used too and break in concentrate
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Old 21-10-08, 22:03   #11
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Try some octane boost.
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Old 22-10-08, 06:20   #12
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before you even start the engine, the oil pump should have been packed (i use grease or vasoline) and the oil filter needs to be prefilled, AND before you first run the car,coil needs to be disconnected and you should crank the engine for a minute or so to get oil pressure... wasnt really the best idea to run it.. it should be ok,but yea.. from what your discribing ,it sounds like your cam was dialled in at 0.its not a huge deal... ill have a chat to a mate at work today for you. im a mechanic,my mate has built a truck load of tuff motors,so ill get sum for info on cam dial in for you.
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Old 22-10-08, 06:41   #13
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by not dialing in the cam it just means its not going to work untill later in the rev range, mate as for starting it with out oil pressure first up well man thats 100% fine u wont have done any damage as it was packed with asembly grease and so on, by the time the pump actually pulled oil up the thing wouldnt of had time to push the assembly grase away or generate any heat so honestly dont stress about that, i personally recon its a combo of cam timing as it needs to be set at 4 deg advanced but the ignition timing needs to be a minimum of 12 deg, the seccond thing i recon is the carby mate id have that checkes as i dont recon its dumping enough fuel in which would make it detenate like u say it is expecially with the letires per 100 u say its roughly getting, for an example i had a stock 308 (fresh) running a wade cam that was 242@50 (crane 286 is 232@50) and i was getting arond 20l per 30-40km and i was running a quadrajet, yeah i used to give it a hard time but when cruising it still sucked fuel
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Old 22-10-08, 07:00   #14
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also... are you running high comp? might be as simple as running premium fuel and octance booster.
if your really suspect on the cam,pull the timing cover off and check ur cam timing.
the new camshaft you purchased should have a card with correct timing for that particular cam.
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Old 23-10-08, 04:30   #15
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From everything you have checked and described, the only conclusion I can come to is it is running lean under load.

What carby are you using?

If the timing was out, on initial startup the pipes would've been glowing red and it would've been overheating pretty fast and backfiring through the carby.

If you are running a holley, back off the mixture screws and turn them 1 1/2, this is the oem setting, from there on in you can have a play to obtain the correct fuel mixture for your motor.

The proper way to check the plugs to see how the motor is running is to run it at high rpm under load and kill the motor, idling/free revving will give a false reading.

Also the fact that you said in your other thread about the temperature being consistant at prolonged speeds leads me to believe that the fuel mixture could be incorrect. Driving at a certain rpm/speed whilst it's running lean will increase the operating temperature, yet if you back off 10km/h the fuel mixture might be alright, thus causing the operating temperature to drop.
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Old 23-10-08, 08:22   #16
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ive still got a quady, i havent touched the air fuel yet, i tryd some octane booster and it helped a bit, im not sure where the timing is now cos i was only borrowing a timing light but i reckon now with some good timing and tuning it will be fine,

when i did an oil change at 200kms the oil was meduim transparent with minimal shavings so im ruling out the lobe on the cam being worn off.

cheers fellas ill keepm yas posted
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