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Old 30-11-10, 10:08   #1
E-Z
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bought a vl not running, help me start it please

ok i have had a few VLs, and have had one nice built up by myself VLT, so i know alot about them, but i just want some more in put incase ive skipped something.

what its doing, cranking with no sign of life at all. just cranks.
so checked spark, has spark.
checked fuel (fuel wiring was ****ed) now it primes and has the lines to the rail and reg in the correct order lol...
took top timing cover off and alligned for TDC and re alligned rotor button as it was 180 out, still nothing.
cas plug was buggered, so i wired in a new one. has about 40mm of unshielded loom to the plug now, will that stop it?
umm there were alot of air leaks which i have blocked.
next im thinkin is just injectors or something, i dont belive its the ECU, as it primes the fuel pump and sparks under cranking.
also the ALT is not plugged in, the reg plug is wrong so ill swap that over today, and it needs a cable from the alt to + on the battery, that shouldnt stop it from atleast starting should it?
unsure my next step should be.
Ryan
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Old 30-11-10, 20:10   #2
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Can you hear the injectors firing? Mine had spark but wouldn't run and it was the crank angle sensor as it has two circuits in it, one controlling spark and the other for RPM input for ecu. I put a rebuilt S3 R31 dizzy in and had no probs from the car now for 8 months. Best thing I ever did.
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Old 30-11-10, 20:16   #3
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Put a long screwdriver against an injector with the handle against your ear....this acts like a docs stethoscope. While someone cranks it over for you, listen for the distinct 'click, click, cliclk' of the injector opening & closing. If you have spark, you should have injector pulse.
If you don't have an injector pulse, check that you have constant 12v at one of the two injector pins.
Also check fuel pressure. You may have fuel supply at the rail, but that doesn't neccessarily mean you have pressure.
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Old 30-11-10, 20:18   #4
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What codes are you getting on the ECU?
Anything other than the usual 14,23,24,31,44?
Is it getting 32?
Not an Alarm/kill switch wired in to the Column keyswitch by any chance?
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Old 30-11-10, 20:25   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MartyRX2 View Post
....Mine had spark but wouldn't run and it was the crank angle sensor as it has two circuits in it, one controlling spark and the other for RPM input for ecu.....
Not quite true......it has two signals, both going direct to the ecu. One gives a signal every 2 crankshaft degrees, the other is like a reference signal. There are 6 different size 'windows' on the CAS chopper disc that the reference signal looks at, therefore the ecu knows exactly when cyl 1 is at TDC.
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Old 30-11-10, 22:47   #6
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There are 2 black earth leads on the offside engine mount, these are critical to the engine running/starting.
Also 1 earth lead from the battery to the offside guard is also a good point to check.


The ECU has no idea when Cylinder 1 is at TDC.

Contrary to belief the CAS is not really a Crank Angle Sensor in the RB30's.
The workshop manuals have mislead the readers for years !!
It is infact a Cam Angle Sensor if anything but thats irrelevant for now.

There are 6x 60deg seperated slots on the inner circle of the dizzys photo interupter disc that give an RPM signal to the ECU.
They also give the ECU the spark firing trigger, not order.
The 360 slots on the outer rim are counted & used as a reference for Dwell calculations and for the ECU to determine which is the largest of the 6 inner slots to determine a home/start firing point.

Start sequence: As the ECU doesn't have a sensor to tell it which cyclinder is firing at any time it waits until the larger slot goes past before it blindly fires the first spark and then consecutively the other 5 at 60deg intervals. This explains having to setup the rotor button to point at to TDC compression stroke on cylinder 1 post to fire up.

The 2 degrees MonstaS4 is talking about is the trailing edge of one slot to the next slot on the 360deg reference. It is Cam shaft degrees not Crankshaft. Remember, since the cam is turning half the speed the crank is, you need to double it.
Good luck!!
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Old 01-12-10, 19:58   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bachig24u View Post
The ECU has no idea when Cylinder 1 is at TDC.
Yeah ok, maybe not technically TDC, but it does know when to fire cyl 1 which was what i was getting at.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bachig24u View Post
The 2 degrees MonstaS4 is talking about is the trailing edge of one slot to the next slot on the 360deg reference. It is Cam shaft degrees not Crankshaft. Remember, since the cam is turning half the speed the crank is, you need to double it.
There are 360 windows on the cas disc. 1 revolution of the disc represents a complete 4 stroke combustion cycle which equals 720 crankshaft degrees. Therefore each slot represents 2 crankshaft degrees (and 1 camshaft degree)
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Old 01-12-10, 20:13   #8
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Tried another dizzy still no good, could be ****ed also, thinking head gasket or rings
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Old 01-12-10, 21:07   #9
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is there fuel getting into the combustion chamber try squrting a bit into the throttle body see if you get a reaction
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Old 01-12-10, 21:17   #10
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Yeah that's where I'm unsure. I'm certain it's fired the other day for half a sec. God knows how long it's been sitting
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Old 01-12-10, 22:38   #11
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[QUOTE=MonstaS4;2643322]Yeah ok, maybe not technically TDC, but it does know when to fire cyl 1 which was what i was getting at.


true, I was referring to the fact that the human error relating to setting the dizzy up is where it can all go wrong at the very start.

Anyways when the NBN gets rolled out, mechanics can sit at home on the internet and diagnose peoples cars!!!
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Old 02-12-10, 14:44   #12
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So as I found out today, it starts on start ya *******, so the injectors are not firing but the cas works for spark. What would cause this? In suspecting ecu is buggered
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Old 02-12-10, 17:52   #13
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As i mentioned earlier, check for 12v at one of the injector pins. One pin will always have 12v regardless of the ign key position. Power for the injectors (and one pin on the ecu) runs through the 'reverse polarity relay' behind the battery. The contacts in the relay could be dirty or the fusable link to the relay could be blown. I'd be surprised if the ecu was at fault.
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Old 02-12-10, 19:59   #14
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It's has 12v at the injectors, can yo get me a pic of these relays? My wiring is a mess
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Old 03-12-10, 15:19   #15
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If you've got 12v at the injectors, it can't be the relay.

Hate to say it, but it is sounding like the ecu. The CAS triggers spark & the injectors, and since you have spark, the CAS must be OK.

Do you have another ecu you can swap in as a test?
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Old 03-12-10, 16:47   #16
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No but I can get one for $40 which seems like a jib.

---------- Post added 03-12-10 at 16:49 ----------

Oh ps it rained last night and my passenger foot well was full of water. So I dare say the ecu has been wet several times
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Old 04-12-10, 21:52   #17
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new ecu doesnt start it, but im certain i have injectors now. coil unplugged and took dizzy out and i could hear the inj firing when i spun it..
wtf.
fires on start ya basterd but back fires, re cheack timing tomorrow and pull injectors out and do the same see if the actually squirt
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Old 06-12-10, 17:50   #18
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If it's backfiring, you may have the dizzy 180 degrees out. i.e. it's firing on the exhaust stroke.

Contrary to popular belief, you cant just rotate the engine to TDC then line up the rotor with cyl 1.
A four stroke engine does 2 crankshaft revolutions per cycle, therefore the dot on the camshaft should be at 12 oclock in relation to the head along with the crank at TDC. This ensures the cyl 1 is on the compression stroke.
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Old 06-12-10, 18:38   #19
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yeah i did that thankyou though, will tripple check tomorrow though. thinking fuel pump or reg isnt supplying enough fuel pressure just yet
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Old 26-12-10, 23:09   #20
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so new ecu in and didnt work, but seems that relay was fisted for the injectors, dunno how i had power at it the other time, starts and runs now, thank you CT
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